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LGB Alco Diesel White Pass

The White Pass and Yukon Railroad is a legendary narrow gauge RR with a literally fantastic history finding its beginnings with the Klondike gold rush. The story of the building of the railroad is superbly described on this website https://wpyr.com/history/. It is worth to read at least a little bit into it.

After a long history of steam locos on the White Pass and Yukon RR times required to find an 'ersatz' to steam locos no longer built by manufacturers. Benoit Poulin put it best on his website  http://drgw.free.fr/WP&YR/Engines/Diesel/Diesel_en.htm, quoted here:

"In 1969, to face the fast growing traffic (especially ore shipping), the White Pass & Yukon seeked again to increase its diesel roster. This time, the railroad turned to Alco (American Locomotive Company), precisely to its Canadian subsidiary Montréal Locomotive Works (MLW). The locomotive manufacturer proposed its DL535E model, a 1200hp 6-axle diesel-electric engine, with narrow hoods and a single cab. These locomotives were related to the classical Alco RS (road switcher) and were equipped with a new and more powerful version of the same Alco prime mover used on the WP&YR GE class 90.

Courtesy of Benoit Poulin

    Seven of these engines (#101 to 107) were delivered by MLW to the White Pass & Yukon in 1969. Unfortunately two of them were almost immediately destroyed by the terrible fire of the Skagway roundhouse. That incident prompted the railroad to order three more locomotives. These three engines (#108 to 110) were delivered in 1971 again by Montréal Locomotive Works (despite the demise of its parent company Alco in 1969). The eight surviving engines were used by the WP&YR until the abrupt end of its operations in 1982. Later in 1988, the railroad re-opened in summer only as a tourist railroad, but the GE diesels were found to be sufficient to run the trains, so the first five Alco of the class were sold to a Colombian narrow gauge railroad, the Societad Colombiana de Transporte Ferroviario (STF).

Courtesy of Benoit Poulin

Yet in 1999, because of high tourist demand, the White Pass & Yukon wished to retrieve its five engines exiled in Colombia and bought them back from STF. Four of the ex-Colombian Alco have been put back into service on the WP&YR, the fifth one is still undergoing restoration."- Quote end.

In the mid 1980's LGB had landed a huge success with the Mogul. Now it was the late 1980's. With an American audience growing crazier and more enamored with LGB almost daily more loco stock was needed desperately. The White Pass and Yukon Alco Diesel was the perfect fit.  American to the core with a sister engine easy to copy (#2056 Alco Diesel) they got ' two birds with one stone'. The LGB # 2055 hit the catalog first in 1990 followed by these variations: (LGB # on left, year on right)

2055 1989
2155 s 1991
21552 1991
72855 1995
72550 1996
72855 1996
22552 1998
23552 1998
24552 1998
25552 2002
26552 2005

The White Pass and Yukon Alco Diesel was the first American Diesel engine for LGB and only the second American loco (after the Mogul) to be offered. First presented (as hand model?) in the New Item brochure of 1989 and then again in the 1990 catalog it entered the market via dealer stores more towards 1991.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ to be continued.

LGB Forney -- Conclusion

Note from Klaus: Have your grand-kids or any family member/ loved one announcing your Christmas Train and wishing you all a Merry Christmas! The ESU 4.0 and 5.0 sound decoders can be programmed and re-programmed (!) with ANY recording/sound file you like!!

Call Klaus for repairs, motor exchange  now!


Eventually Rolf Richter and others managed to get Disney's approval. It took 5 years. To be fair those were years of struggle or die for LGB. The Disney logo on any type of LGB train - so the Richter's hoped - would generate the much needed sales volume to prove to banks that they were viable for another line of credit or any expansion thereof. Money was tight to say the least. So eventually, they could manufacture the Disney Forney and went for a set. The LGB # 72350:

LGB # 72350 - Courtesy of trainz.com

Here  is a closer look at the loco

Courtesy of trainz.com

The loco in the picture is missing the gold crown on top of the smoke stack and the top of the sand dome which is shown on the starter set box. In 2004 LGB offered the set in Europe and in the USA. That makes it plausible that more than 400 sets were produced. YT tried to find price levels at time of market introduction but only managed to find a purchase price mentioned in a sales offer in 2008; that was US$ 1,000.00.
This set was advertised in its own catalog/brochure together with the Chloe train set, the Disney Mogul and - a first and last- the LGB/Disney game board train set # 92313.

In 2005 LGB continued their Forney offerings with the LGB # 24251, the Wild West Forney:

LGB # 24251 - Courtesy of Only Trains

Shown first in the LGB Fall Special 2005 it made it to the dealer stores in 2006. Price was approx US$ 590.00

Also shown in the Fall Special flyer was the Forney LGB #25251

LGB 25251 - Courtesy of Ebay

At the time of writing this blog episode this all black Forney was offered on Ebay out of Saratoga Springs/UTAH for  US$ 520.00. Used.

In 2006 LGB tried whatever they could before the hammer came down on them. The Forney wasn't left out. Four models were introduced; the LGB # 26251, LGB # 27251, LGB # 28251 and another set LGB # 70120. 19 (!) different brochures, catalogs, flyers and leaflets were published.

LGB 26251 - Courtesy of Worthpoint

This # 26251 Santa Fe # 23 was another conversion 2-4-4T Forney. No wonder, after they had the molds already. This was easy to re-produce and paint differently. Nonetheless a nice Forney!

As was the LGB# 27251 Colorado and Southern.

LGB 27251 - Courtesy of Worthpoint

And the Coca-Cola Forney # 28251. This was a true 0-4-4 in Coca-Cola coloring. When and if it was still delivered to dealers in 2006 is possible but not clear. LGBoA was to go into liquidation but it was also known that quite a bit of merchandise was set aside by those in-the-know. As of time of publication of this blog this 28251 is still or again available on the market for anywhere from $350 to $720.00

LGB 28251 - Courtesy of Worthpoint.com

The starter set 70120 or in USA 72120 (for 120V operation) experienced the same fate.

LGB 82120 - Courtesy of Only Trains

It pops up currently as well with prices ranging from US$ 590.00 to $ 750.00. Originally probably priced at US$ 829.00. The PRR loco is also a 0-4-4 in dark green and a dark silver smoke chamber. The cabin roof is red.

The Forney type was one of the first locos to be re-issued by the new owner of LGB, Simba-Dickie. A good and a wise choice. Even though it was a 2-4-4T the # 26253 would ring in a new era for the consummate LGB collector and the general LGB fan as well!

LGB Forney -- Part 2

Note from Klaus: Have your grandkids or any family member/ loved one announcing your Christmas Train and wishing you all a Merry Christmas! The ESU 4.0 and 5.0 sound decoders can be programmed and re-programmed (!) with ANY sound file you like!!



After the  1992 "New item brochure"only showed a technical drawing of the LGB Forney to come it took some time for this beautiful loco to actually enter dealer stores. It must have been between the end of 1993 and somewhere in 1994 that she became available to customers.

LGB 20251 - Courtesy of Only Trains

Featuring a smoke generator, fire box light she also sported  - just like the prototype - a water tank cap on top of the water tank. Introductory price was a low US$ 370.00 to 395.00. No LGB Forney after that would cost so little.

Introduced in the 1994 catalog and "New Items brochure", the LGB # 21251 was announced and again not delivered. It took more than a year to show in retail stores. LGB tried to make it an LGBoA "Exclusive" but with an item not ready to be delivered this intend fizzled. This  Forney wasn't even advertised in the European market. Eventually sometime between the end of 1996 and 1997 delivery began.

LGB 21251 - Courtesy of Only Trains

Price was at around US$ 400.00 featuring smoke generator and firebox light.

At the same time as the LGB 21251 was still advertised but not available LGB also started advertising the LGB# 21252 in metallic blue with (digital) sound as part of the "Queen Mary Series". Quoting gbdb.info :" Lehmann Patentwerk (the owners of LGB) created the "Queen Mary Series" to market locomotives and rolling stock that were painted in liveries of standard gauge railroads but where no standard gauge prototype actually existed.

The series name was chosen to commemorate the 1990 LGB Model Railroad Club convention, held aboard the ocean liner Queen Mary at Long Beach, California."

LGB 21252 Queen Mary Series - Courtesy of ebay

Also offered that year was the LGB # 20252, the 'yellow' Lake George and Boulder' Forney with digital sound. First presented in the New Item Flyer for USA in 1995 this Forney reached markets in USA in 1996 and was marked as limited available in 1997.

LGB 20252 - Courtesy of Only Trains

Before the end of the Millenium LGB offered the LGB# 23252 in 1998. The "Columbus" Forney was an extended Forney version 2-4-4 with  pilot wheels in front of the driving wheel set. LGB couldn't get Disney's approval obviously so they couldn't advertise the Forney as the Fred Gurley 2-4-4T converted Disney Forney. That would come in 2004 in the Disney Starter set # 72350. This converted Forney was advertised as the 'Christmas loco' since the "colors would fit" .

LGB 23252 - Courtesy of Only Trains

++++++++++++++++++++++++++to be continued........................

LGB Forney

The Forney is a steam engine concepted, patented and built between 1861 and 1864 by Matthias Forney. As a tank engine it carries its water tank on-board instead of in a tender. The wheel arrangement was originally a 0-4-4T with 4 driving wheels followed by a truck with 4 wheels as can be seen in this old photograph

Courtesy of Wikipedia

Typical for the Forney type is the size difference in the 2 pairs of wheels. Many other locos with a 0-4-4 or 4-4-0 arrangement have been called Forneys, albeit incorrectly. They are basically all 4-4-0 American.
Another characteristic is that the second pair of driving wheels have no flange. That ensures that the loco would not derail in any curves: The first wheel set with flange ensures to stay on the rails and the second wheel(set) could then slightly slip sideways on the rail while the bunker/cab  had its own 2 pair of wheels to follow easily.
Lastly, the coal bunker and water tank were placed over the four-wheel truck.

The Forney was used in big numbers in commuter railroads in the burgeoning cities of New York, Boston and Chicago since she was fabulous in small areas, tight curves and ideal in short range usage. The Forney was also used on the narrow gauge railroads of Maine. Here the Forney was soon converted to a 2-4-4 by adding a pony truck which improved her tracking ability.

One such conversion was later done by Disney Railroad, see below

Courtesy of Disneyland Railroad

To rebuilt the Forney LGB wanted to honor Forney's idea of curve manageability. Their solution was to add a peg/gudgeon to the gearbox enabling an pivoting connection to the engine chassis above. Thus the little engine could do a (narrow) curve with the gearbox while the housing would slightly lurch away from the gearbox without derailing the loco.

These Forneys (LGB #s on left, first year of production on right) were built by LGB over the years:

2025	1992
20251	1993
21251	1995
20252	1996
21252	1996
23252	1998
72350	2004
24251	2005
25251	2005
26251	2006
27251	2006
28251	2006
70120	2006

The first LGB Forney was announced in the 1992 "New Items" brochure just with a photo of the old prototype Forney #22 by Sandy River & Rangley RR and a technical drawing of the locomotive:

This Forney was originally built by Baldwin Locomotive Works for Eustis Railroad (part of P&R, Maine) in Maine in 1904 as a 0-4-4T original Forney Steam Loco. It was one of the largest and heaviest Forneys on the Maine narrow gauge RR's and was so heavy that it literally destroyed the 35 pound steel rails of the Eustis RR but the RR only needed them to carry logs to the Berlin saw mill which was close by. The mill closed in 1908. This Forney was No.9 at Eustis RR. When the decline of the saw mill industry closed several small RR's The Sandy River and Rangeley Lakes RR bought out and / or got receivership of among others the Eustis RR and their locomotives. They renamed the Forney S.R. & R.L. No. 22. She was scrapped in 1935.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++to be continued....

EMD F 7 -- Conclusion

Even though it was presented in the 2001 flyer "NEW ITEMS" and was supposed to be an LGBoA exclusive, the LGB F7 # 26570, # 26582, the Great Northern, and # 26574 and # 26584, the blue/yellow Santa Fe, didn't make their entrance to the dealer's store or customer's home until 2005.
By then it had been marked as eXtra -item. The eXtra- series/ marketing scheme was an ill-advised idea by Rolf Richter. Big dealers were forced to invest a significant amount of money into some obscure computer ordering scheme with elaborate decorative shelving builds at their store only to find out that the customer could just as well order the same eXtra items from home or directly via the internet either from LGBoA SanDiego or LGB Nuremberg.
Even though the internet was still young, dealers were not happy! Neither in Germany nor in USA. What was sold to them as "this will bring customers into your store"  turned into simple phone order business or less. Shadows of the looming end were casting their spell.....

Here are the ominous LGBoA/ eXtra F7s

LGB 26570 - Courtesy of Only Trains

LGB 26582 - Courtesy of Only Trains

and  the Blue / Yellow Santa Fe set

Courtesy of grossbahnen.shop

The same fate befell the LGB # 28570 and # 28582, the New Haven. Fun Fact: This F7 was in real life actually an EMD FL9. General Motors built 60 units of this dual motor electric-diesel locomotive for the New York, New Haven and Hartford between 1956 and 1960. How many F7's LGB produced of this type is unknown but an educated guess might put the number between 700 and 800 or less.

Courtesy of Champex-Linden

Courtesy of Champex-Linden

It is difficult to say whether the SP Daylight, the blue/yellow Santa Fe or the LGB 29570 Coca-Cola F7 set was the last F7 to be manufactured by the old LGB. In the 2002 LGBoA catalog/brochure they were all shown. What was actually delivered before 2005 remains unknown.

Courtesy of worthpoint.com

 The Coca-Cola set had a limited edition of 500. Price was approx. US$ 1,500.00

LGB 29570 set - Courtesy of Only Trains.

Since its inauguration in 1996 until 2002/2005 LGB had made 30 A and B versions or 15 "sets" of the F7. Since the Simba-Dickie Group took over LGB and Maerklin in 2009 more versions came onto the market; the latest as of 2019 being the Napa Valley Wine Train F7 A unit. The real EMD F7 was a remarkable engine forming an era of train travel and freight in the United States for decades.

To all LGB engineers and operators: Please check your engines for proper operation before Thanksgiving! Call Klaus with any needs. THANKS!

EMD F 7 at LGB -- Part 4

The year 2000 brought the famous Y2K bug hysteria but as soon as 2 days had passed into the new year it became clear -- all was well. LGB had survived the "calamity" as well. They had issued another big catalog and had also produced some LGBoA Specials.

After the release of the # 25570 , the F7 A unit of the PENNSYLVANIA Railroad the previous year, now they released the B unit, the # 25582 with digital sound, no motor. The price was still DM 899.00 or US$ 530.00.

#25582 - Courtesy of Trainz.com

Also released was the F7 B unit Southern Pacific # 24582, no motor, no sound.

Courtesy of BigTrainWorld, Netherlands

As LGBoA Special the American customer could purchase the LGB # 27570 and # 27582 F7 Canadian Pacific. The B unit had digital sound, no motor.

LGB 27570- Courtesy of Only Trains

LGB 27582 - Courtesy of Only Trains

LGB# 70657 Courtesy of Trainz.com

A special delight was the LGBoA Exclusive LGB# 70657. Delivered in a silver colored trunk with foam protection inside, featuring cutouts for the A and B unit and in a second layer below for the three passenger cars. With an edition volume of 1,000 the train set came with a price of about US$ 1,500.00

# 70657 F 7 A and B unit in foam-Courtesy of Trainz.com

And since we're talking treats here is another one for you,  esteemed reader: The ESU sound decoder (with the driving decoder integrated) in operation in a F7 SP. This is the ESU 4.0 which is already outstanding in performance. The slow driving operation is so perfectly smooth and slow -- and boring(!) that  for about 5 years this video clip was the least watched on Youtube! Not anymore... By now, ESU 5.0 is here and even better and Klaus currently works on a project to enhance the very same F 7 SP to a complete different level of sound and driving operation. He will keep you posted.  Klaus loves ESU decoders and their fantastic driving and sound characteristics. Watch for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxQg1gTbk8U


In 2001 LGB published a new full catalog and a flurry of brochures among them the 120 Years Anniversary brochure and the introduction booklet into the MTS system, the digital control operation that allowed the individual operation of 8 locos at the same time. Such a usual standard these days that it sounds weird explaining it.
The 120 Years Anniversary related to the original Lehmann Toy Works, established in 1881.
The new catalog announced " more than 90 new products", all of which were shown in the 4-page LGBoA flyer. Among them the

LGB F 7 # 22578 and 22588 -- See Through units A and B
LGB F 7 # 26570 and 26582 -- Great Northern
LGB F 7 # 28570 and 28582 -- New Haven RR

The See Through F 7 had its followers and dis-likers from the start. Klaus Baumann is known to have advised his dealers on the See Through with: " That's a model which you can paint yourself..." The American market was quite fond of her since she delivered something truly American, colored tiny LED lights inside both units lighting up upon operation. The A unit was also available in a digital version (#22578.08). Edition volume for the A unit was 700 and 500 for the B unit (no motor, but sound). A very small number compared to other so-called collector's editions that would easily go up to 2,500 or at least 1,000.

LGB 22578- Courtesy of Trainz.com

LGB 22588 - Courtesy of Trainz.com

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ to be continued.