LGB 2017 series - Part 6

 The year 1996 brought another 2017 train set, the LGB 70314. The Lake George & Boulder train consisted of a 2017 loco , no tender, and  two passenger cars. In the USA it would carry the LGB # 72314. That year LGBoA had a whole bunch of  2017 starter sets  launched for their big sales year. They were flying high and sold whatever they could get their hands on. Even if it meant to sell old for new or repainted for 'brand new'. 

The  "LGB 1996 NEWS" brochure made that clear on page 6:

From set # LGB 72311 to set # LGB 72910 they all featured the 2017 loco without the motorized tender, in different paint scheme and passenger or freight cars from the existing stock. With some cars in new paint scheme as well. 

Typical for all these sets is the fact that they were sold in huge numbers as the current internet platforms have all of them still for sale (used/almost new) with prices ranging from US$ 250.00 to $ 500.00. A lot of people don't know what they have and their description of the engine/set does not always correlate with the true product. Be careful if you like to purchase a set and make sure you get what you are looking for. This blog should be a help, hopefully.

1997 showed more of the same and for reasons unbeknownst LGBoA offered the very same series  from above again - BUT - you guessed it, changed item numbers for the very same product, i.e. from 72910 to 73910. And since they were already at it they pulled the wool over their customers eyes by claiming the 73910 had an 1 Amp throttle when actually all starter sets came with a 1 Amp throttle...- as American as apple pie... (see right lower corner of image below)

clip from the LGB NEWS 1997 brochure, page 2

Also offered where a number of motorized tenders for all those who wanted to 'complete' the 2017 engine set.

Before the 2017 set series would run out there were 3 more sets to be published. 

In 1997 the Looney Toones Express LGB # 72997 made its American debut. Another USA-only product it also came as a limited edition. Only 1500 were made:

LGB 72997 incomplete - Courtesy of reynaulds.com

Please look closely and you will see that the transformer is missing, also one figurine and the part were the track should be is covered by a catalog. Asking price was still around US$ 500.

The complete set looked like this:

LGB 72997 complete - Courtesy of liveauctions.com

Value today runs anywhere from US$ 500.00 to $ 700.00.

In 2000 the last two 2017 series sets came on the market. The LGB # 72534 and # 72554.

LGB 72534 - Courtesy of Only Trains

LGB 72554 - Courtesy of Only Trains

Both sets came as a limited edition the passenger car set limited to 2000 sets and the freight car set to 1,500. Both were meant to be USA-only sets. Alas, that didn't last, by 2002 they were sold everywhere.

Prices today range around $ 500.00 and higher if the set is complete.

The complete # 72345 came in a box with this content:

Courtesy of ebay.com

LGB original box label

The freight train set had this content:

Courtesy of worthpoint.com

and runs about US$ 400.00 (incomplete) to over $ 500.00 if complete and unused.

This concludes the LGB 2017 series.

LGB 2017 Series - Part 5

With the new numbering system still in testing LGB offered the set below with 2 numbers: # 72412 for the USA, advertised in the 1995 USA News brochure and  # 70412 for the German/European market. The latter wasn't offered until 1996, in the official LGB main catalog 1996/97 pg.20

LGB 70412 - Courtesy of grootspoor.com

LGB 70412 - Courtesy of ebay.com

LGB 70412 - Courtesy of pickclick.de

Edition volume must have been pretty high since the set is still readily available today. Prices today range between US$ 350.00 and $525.00 depending on condition and completeness of set.

The year 1995 saw an USA exclusive again with the LGB # 25171- or so it was sold...:

LGB 25171 - Courtesy of Only Trains

Alas, it didn't last, the exclusiveness. LGB decided the same year (1996) to sell the "exclusive USA Christmas Train" worldwide. And they even put it in the main catalog LGB 1996/97.

Throughout the years prices stayed on a high level for this loco & motorized tender set: You might see the occasional US$ 390.00 or less but overall prices in the mid $500.00's are common.

Another US special during the time frame 1995/96 was the LGB 72555.

LGB 72555- Courtesy of worthpoint.com

LGB 72555 - Courtesy of onlytrains.com

 A very pretty Christmas train set with the 25171 loco, the LGB # 45110 Christmas hinge-hatch gondola and the Christmas caboose LGB #44650. This Christmas train set remained an USA exclusive and prices are varying from US$ 200.00 to US$ 400.00 but have reached US$ 750.00 lately.

+++++++++++++++++to be continued...

Merry Christmas

To all our followers, readers, fans and friends a very Merry Christmas and a safe, healthy and prosperous New Year!

Christmas Card Design by YT - photos courtesy of twawestern.org and pinterest

Our regular blog will continue in January 2021...

LGB 2017 Series - Part 4

Since 1987  LGB had utilized the #2017 loco as their mule for starter sets. Also, the 2017 sets were almost solely sold to the American market with very few exceptions. One such exception was the LGB 2217 (22171 after 1993) that made its appearance in the 1993/4 catalog. Not many were made and it is more than hard to find one today. This engine w/motorized tender was sold worldwide.

LGB 22171 - Courtesy of  B-Ware Guenstig

The engine was probably sold for about $ 400.00. But - big but - about a year later the very same loco w/tender was utilized in the LGB set # 725858, the LGB Rocky Mountain Freight Super Set:

LGB 72858 - Courtesy of gscaletrainset.com

It contained the # 2217, # 4080-Y05, 40900, 44720 and 4065-L01. 

LGB 4080 Y05-
C by gscaletrainset.com for all cars/set

LGB 4065 L01

It was an LGBoA exclusive and the cars (green tank car, red and pink boxcar and yellow caboose) were also utilized in similar train sets with different locos up front. Those sets were also LGBoA exclusives that year (1995/6). 

LGB 40900

LGB 44720

Not many of these # 72858 set survived and they still sell for about $ 400.00.

When the (Starter) sets didn't include the actually required motorized tender (to make it a true 2017 loco type) LGB issued motorized tenders by itself.  Two tenders were offered already (1988 and 1991) so LGB was about to issue another motorized tender in 1992, the LGB 2217/6 . This motorized tender appears also under the LGB numbers 22176 and 69276:

LGB 22176/69276 - Courtesy of Only Trains

This one sold for US$ 250.00, originally but was no American exclusive. 

The excessive though often somewhat mixed LGB stock offered to the American customer in the early 1990's - perfectly mirrored within this 2017 series - is a good example of misunderstanding your market. LGB Germany was thriving. The late 1980's had brought them unheard-of growth. And the early 1990's was a business high-time for and in Germany at large. The exact opposite was true for the USA. The early 1990's brought a recession, homemade due to high interest rates and very low consumer confidence. President George H.W. Bush was in office and was a hapless President when it came to Economics. The top LGB management didn't have a clue about that. There was no understanding of the American mentality, their needs, fears, or current feelings. Thus marketing decisions were made that could not and did not match the needs of the US customer. And LGBoA couldn't help either. Their goal had always been their own pockets.

Thus, it is no wonder that a pretty engine like the LGB #22176 in her beautiful dark red coloring never made a big splash nor can be found  nearly anywhere today. And the same holds true for the set # 72858.

Unfazed by any American ongoing in 1993 LGB issued the # 70311 which was also sold by LGB at the same time as # 25301

LGB 70311 aka LGB 25301- Courtesy of  stefanschwegler.de

LGB 70311 in box - C of beta-lottissimo.com

This set is currently (12/2/20) offered on eBay for US$ 555.00. Talk about retaining value...

This set also came with a sister set, the LGB 70411 aka # 25401 (both images courtesy of worthpoint.com)

Dearest reader, by now you may think LGB had gone 'two locos short of a train ' by issuing 2 item numbers for the same product again and again...Well, in 1993 LGB had come to the end of the (rail)line with their 4-digit defining numbering system. They were in need of another digit and some redefining of what numbering to use on what item group. The result was a fine zoo - as seen above. But it would get better the next year.

+++++++++++++++++++++to be continued...

LGB 2017 Series - Part 3

 After offering the two sets LGB #20087 and #20287 somehow LGB remembered that the #2017 was actually a loco-with-motorized-tender engine and offered the motorized tender for the two sets a year later.

LGB 2117/6 - courtesy of ebay.com

The tender wasn't labeled but came with a labeling sheet. Some customers labeled them "L.G.& B."

This tender was again sold only in the USA as were the two sets. This tender was followed by another twin set the LGB #22301 and #22401, both in 1989:

LGB 22301 - Courtesy of Only Trains

LGB 22401 - Courtesy of legacystation.com

Yes, dear reader, you are right, 22401 looks exactly like LGB 20087, the set from about 2 years ago. The difference? This time it was labeled with "Lake George & Boulder". I kid you not.

It is hard to fathom why LGB decided to turn so much against their best market with the biggest growth chances. While the German market had been complaining a while about high prices, the American customer couldn't care less. Here, LGB trains were more of a status symbol. A way to show: "I did it! I have the money - I can afford this!". Neither the LGB home front in Germany nor LGBoA did anything to bolster that market. Was the goal quite the opposite? Did LGB plainly NOT understand the market? However, in hindsight this was a clear miss of a fantastic opportunity and would mark the slow beginning of an end nobody on the customer side ever really grasped. 

As if to prove this theory right, 1991 saw another motorized tender, LGB #2317/6:

LGB 2317/6 - Courtesy of liveauctioneers.com

It had a red chassis with a white top structure. If you see a completely black tender or one with a red chassis and a black top-structure, on the used-item market these are often 'labeled' 2317/6 but are NOT. The complete black one was issued in 1993 and the red chassis/black top structure about 1999. Beware when buying from the internet or from a dealer with poor knowledge.

LGB 21988-Courtesy of onlytrains.com

This motorized tender was actually thought to complete the newly issued 'Circus Train-Set',  LGB #21988, issued in 1988 but probably not delivered until a year or so later. This set had an edition volume of 12,500 but was NOT exclusive for the USA customer. It was sold 'worldwide'.

The next twin set of train sets, often called starter sets in the belief that this would sell to children and thus get their fathers hooked to the hobby (a thought so converse to marketing rules it's almost ridiculous) came in 1991.

The LGB # 25301 and the #25401:

LGB 25301 - Courtesy of onlytrains.com

LGB 25401 incomplete (tracks and figurines missing, see box cover above)
Courtesy of liveauctioneers.com

Both sets are not easy to find in today's market. They appear either incomplete or mixed up with other items. Edition volume was probably around 10.000. Prices ranged about under US$ 350.00 which was still a stiff price for a 'toy'/hobby.

Both sets were USA-ONLY products but only until 1993 when both sets were offered worldwide and thus made their way into the German market as well. The German customer had become aware of USA-Only models and didn't take it gently. After all it was made in their country and they were not able to get it? Didn't sit well with them. And at the same time LGB took the USA-Only value away from their most willing market and highly devoted customers.

+++++++++++++++++++to be continued...

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

Courtesy Getty Images

LGB 2017 series - Part 2

 In 1977 the American LGB market saw their first USA-model with the LGB 2017

Giant LGB Catalogue - Page 4: LGB 2017

She featured 2 motors, one in the engine and one in the tender; a principle that would see their own products in the future. With the 1977 catalog LGB offered 20 locomotives, all of them either modeling German, Austrian or Swiss prototypes except the 2017. 

These 20 locomotives were creating a massive wave of LGB fans in the USA. The East Coast was turning out LGB Hobby stores galore. Not that Americans didn't know model trains. Lionel was the biggest toy maker in USA by 1950 and there wasn't a boy child in America who didn't have or wanted a Lionel train. But Lionel was "O" or "HO" gauge. LGB brought another dimension - G-scale, ready for indoor AND outdoors! People flocked to it. All the more as the trains where of excellent quality and of immense accuracy down to the last detail. Though a bit pricey they just as well delivered the perfect excuse for fathers to get into the hobby either again or anew. That led to the demand for coming together and sharing the hobby, thus the LGB Clubs started sprouting. Pennsylvania, NY State,

 

LGB Telegram issue No 1 and 2-Courtesy of LGB-trains.com

English LGB catalog of 1977, pg 18 - lgb-trains.com

Chicago, New England States - they were the 'founding' clubs of what would become a club organization with thousands of members, their own club magazine (LGB Telegram) and a Wolfgang Richter who had to travel to America on a yearly bases ...period! Most clubs were established around 1977/78. Just 10 years (!) after LGB had launched their first ever model train, the LGB 2010 "STAINZ" in Nuremberg/Germany. In a world without internet, prompt information, iPhone or anything else in nano-second speed.

LGB reacted fast - - or so you would think...Well, 1983 saw the birth of the LGB Mogul but it wasn't until 1987 that LGB offered the # 20087

LGB 20087 - Courtesy of liveauction.com

A starter set and this time ONLY for the US market. No distribution in Germany or Europe at all. Take a good look at the loco which is of course the 2017 (without the tender) in a different color scheme ("Rio Grande") but also laid the foundation for the bigger part all other starter sets or train sets that would be made for the US customer only. LGB # 20087 had an edition of 10.000 and had a sister set the LGB # 20287

LGB 20287 - Courtesy of liveauction.com

Each set sold for about US$ 200.00 which was quite a bit of money back then, in today's money(-value) that would be more than US$ 500.00. The color of the high side European-type gondola made the difference in the two sets, one was red (20087) one was blue (20287). The market today has quite a big problem naming them right. So watch out if you want to get one or the other.

++++++++++++++++++++++++ to be continued...

LGB 2017 Series - Only In America

 The LGB 2010 was the first ever LGB engine that in 1968 started a business and hobby that would conquer the world, literally. 

An early LGB 2010

By 1975 some 2010 LGB engines had found their way into the USA and created demand in a way even the Richter brothers Wolfgang and Eberhard couldn't foresee. Eagerly they tried to built an engine that was modeled on the small 0-4-0 Western engines like this one by Henschel  that today is on display in Akron/OH

A Henschel 0-4-0T in Akron/OH-
copyright Bob McGilvray Jr.

First LGB offered the #2016 which was listed in the 1975 Fall catalog but not shown. The text said "2016 Tank Locomotive US Railways (no picture)". And again in 1976 the LGB catalog (again just a 4-page brochure!) listed the product #2016 but no image. (YT: our extensive search on the internet did not deliver any photo of a really existing LGB 2016 which usually means none were produced) Finally - in 1977 and with a catalog of 20(!) pages the 2016 had miraculously turned into the LGB 2017 and was presented:

page 4 of the 1977 LGB 'catalog' - #2017 in upper right corner

LGB 2017 first presented in 1977 LGB catalog

It was year 6 of printing an English version of the LGB catalog and it was the first year that LGB had so much rolling stock to offer that the catalog grew to 20 pages , thus the headline "Giant LGB Catalogue". The 2017 came as a tank version with a motorized tender and was the beginning of an unprecedented success on the American market. So much so that almost all 2017 editions including those in sets were exclusively made for the US market. Very few editions made their way back to Germany or Europe. One may even say that the LGB 2017 built the backbone of the American LGB business.

Though by 1977 your Famous Klaus was flying into the USA for Lufthansa he had no LGB connections, yet. So knowledge about USA-only models are sparse, on his side. That may explain why the list below - of all engine types and sets of the 2017- might be incomplete. We are actively asking our dear readers and followers/friends to provide further and better information where available. Thank you!

As far as we know these #2017 and 2017 tender models and sets have been made by LGB. The 2017 has also been the role model for a number of ToyTrains by LGB which might get their own chapter one day.

LGB#      Year

2017 1977

20087 1987

20287 1987

2117/6 1988

22301 1989

22401 1989

2317/6 1991

25301 1991

25401 1991

2217/6 1992

2217 1993

70311/72311 1993

70312 1993

70411/72411 1993

70412/72412 1994

25171 1995

72555 1995

72858 1995

70314/72314 1996

72414      1996

72910      1996

72997 1997

72534 2000

72554 2000

+++++++++++++++++++++++ to be continued..............