Aster and LGB - # 22832 Mallet

LGB had built their first Mallet (0-6-6-0) in 1982

LGB 2085D - Courtesy LGB Kompendium

and Aster had built their first Mallett brass live-steam loco (0-8-0+0-8-0T) in 1989.

Aster Mallet - Courtesy of  southernsteamtrains.com

LGB announced the new Aster/LGB engine in 2003 with delivery in 2004. Aster delivered on time and the new LGB # 22832 was another very fine example of brass craftsmanship:

LGB 22832 - Courtesy of marketplace.trainzauctions.com

The edition volume for the loco was 500, one hundred less than the previous Aster/LGB engines. The price was about US$ 5,000.00. The loco came in the well known Aster wooden box with individually numbered boxes.

Fun fact:Klaus Baumann, LGB VP Marketing/Sales had utilized his excellent network relations to convince the Oechsle Bahn Museum to grant LGB the rights to model the DB 99 633 as a brass loco in cooperation with Aster. What a genius move. Klaus Baumann retired in April 2003 with a legacy unrivaled...
Advertising:
By mid 2003 LGB had implemented their eXtra Premium program in Germany; the ill-fated measure that frustrated and angered dealers and customers on different levels. What better idea than to promote the new Aster LGB Mallet right in this marketing project... The eXtra Premium program was this: the (German) dealer had to invest a big chunk of his own money into a computer to be installed in his retail store so the customer could order from this computer an eXtra-Premium LGB item that - so the promise to the dealer - no non-member-customer could order. Well, you wished. Any customer just needed to call LGB directly and could order whatever he wanted, eXtra or not. LGB top management had simply shot themselves into their own foot. Twice. They had forced these dealers to buy the computer and installations for big money or be thrown out as an LGB dealer and at the same time allowed any customer and smaller dealer to order what their hearts desire from LGB directly no matter what product. Mind you, there were no discounts involved in this program. Every product would cost the same no matter through which channel it was bought. The eXtra- Premium translated to extra money for premium-be taken... As you can imagine....LGB management lost a lot of trust with their (German) dealers.

The American customer was spared such a nonsense and for good reason. For the US market this program simply didn't make any sense. The US customer called in his orders. Had done so for years. The dealers would then order by computer anyway. Computer use and -technology was already used on another level than in Germany. And US dealers knew which of their customers wanted an Aster/LGB model and called them early to secure orders and delivery.
And with a price of US$ 5,000.00 (or Euro 3,000.00) this was for a chosen clientele anyway.

Railroad Romance episode opener - Courtesy of SWF 3 on youtube

The archetype: The Aster/LGB # 22832 is a 0-4-4-0 and a (model) replica of the DB 99 633 Oechsle RR, one of the best known locomotives on German television due to the opener of the  beloved long running TV series "Eisenbahn Romantik" (Railroad Romance)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25RRj569bxA). It is  accompanied by an instrumental version of "Sentimental Journey"
The actual DB 99 633 is a true narrow gauge loco, built by the German "Maschinenfabrik Esslingen" (engineering works Esslingen) between 1899 and 1901. The MF Esslingen had designed the tssd Mallet herself focusing on narrow gauge requirements to haul passengers and freight, ore and wood on steep hilly terrain with narrow curves. The loco was built to fit on 750mm gauge (29.5 inch). The  99 633 was in operation at Ochsenhausen RR / southern Germany from 1900 until 1985 when she was retired to the Oechsle Museum RR. There she was in operation until 1990 when she was involved in a car accident. After that she lay dormant in a loco shed at the museum ... -- Restoration project for the 99 633 started in 2002. It took copious amounts of money, overcoming of changing traffic and engineering European laws and an extreme stubborn will of the people involved to rebuilt the engine more or less from scratch.

assembling had begun again - Courtesy of oechsle-bahn.de

Eventually in November 2014, 12 years of never ending, relentless work and will the DB 99 633 was  under steam, again. Official commissioning was April 2015 at the Oechsle Museums RR

Commissioning of the completely restored DB 99 633 - Courtesy of oechsle-bahn.de 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++to be continued........................

Aster and LGB - # 21832

In 2000 LGB had started the Mikado project in Nuremberg. It took Gunter Ruhland, head mold master, quite some time to finalize the molds for the Mikado. It was a complicated design fraught with operational failure. For more information on this matter please revisit our Mikado blogs from January of 2014 and November of  2012.

Sometime during the design and creation phase Aster was contacted. They had already built 3 Mikado models all live steam and in brass; the first, the SNCF 141R already in 1979. And while LGB Nuremberg and Gunter Ruhland were still working hard on their first Mikado edition Aster had built the Aster/LGB Mikado in brass with the regular electrical motor within a year to be ready for sale in 2002. The same year LGB would present their Mikado # 20872.

The Aster/LGB Mikado made its debut as the White Pass Mikado No 73 in all black with red cab door and red cab window frames and a silver smoke chamber.

Aster/LGB # 21832 - courtesy of Only Trains

The Aster Mikado was equipped with sound and smoke (generator) and some engines came with a factory installed MTS decoder for digital operation but could operate analog as well. The overall edition volume was again 600 and as usual it came in a wooden box with the loco being secured in Styrofoam within the box.

As you can see in this close up:

Aster # 21832 loco - courtesy of brasstrains.com 

by design the model-loco 4 axles make the loco somewhat unresponsive to tighter curves. LGB curves R1 and R2 were tough to handle for the Aster Mikado since Aster was used to operate their live steam models on much wider curves than LGB track offered. This was no Aster fault. There was simply little communication from LGB (top management) to Aster regarding operational differences and track requirements.....

Fun Fact: if you would precision scale original track curves that Mikado locos operated through to the LGB scale this curve would run halfway around the outside of your house.

Ad-wise - you guessed right - almost nothing. LGB published 18 catalogs and brochures in 2002 including two major catalogs for LGBoA: a main catalog 2002(156 pages) and a 68 page catalog "LGB of America Info 2002". Plenty of space to advertise the Aster Mikado.... you'd think. Looky here............now.....

LGB 21832 ad in LGBoA Info 2002, page 23

Shown was a photo of the prototype. All the while, 5 pages earlier, all(!!) (future) LGB Mikados were presented. Mind you, nothing was in production yet but the # 20872 and no hand models were available either. (More on that subject on a future blog about the LGB Mikado). So photo shop images were used.

Not even that little love was shown on the Aster Mikado

The archetype is the White Pass Mikado No 73 custom built by Baldwin for the White Pass & Yukon Route in 1947 and was operated by the Yukon RR until 1964. To quote Wikipedia :" After retirement

The Mikado No 73 restored on the WP&Y RR - Courtesy of the WP & Y RR website

on June 30, 1964, the locomotive was moved to Bennett, British Columbia, in 1968 for display. In 1979 the locomotive was moved again to Whitehorse, Yukon, this time to be restored. Restoration was completed in 1982 and the locomotive has been back in service since then ".

 And proof was about to be in the pudding. Your very own Famous Klaus was in Skagway in 1989 visiting the WP&Y RR  for sound recordings for the  WP&Y RR  LGB 2055 (see our earlier blog) and making friends for a lifetime. Among his cherished moments were coming across the winterized  No. 73 and taking a slew of photos to capture history.

Mikado No 73 winterized in Skagway in 1989 - copyright Klaus Stork

Today, tourists, rail fans, train enthusiasts and Yukon lovers can enjoy a train ride throughout the (summer) season:

Mikado No 73 in operation on the White Pass & Yukon Route o Courtesy of the WP & Y RR website

+++++++++++++++++++++++++ to be continued.................................

Aster and LGB - # 20922

The next Aster/LGB model was presented in 2001, the Aster NGG13 Garratt steam loco:

LGB 20922 - Courtesy of brasstrains.com

As before, the brass loco came in a wooden box, all engines/boxes were individually numbered. Packaging was (dual) LGB Styrofoam box in wooden box

LGB 20922 original packaging - Courtesy of Only Trains

Edition volume was 600 of which some were outfitted with (LGB factory installed) digital decoders. This Garratt came wonderfully equipped with (quoting Only Trains website)

Features:

Limited Run - Serial #116 / 600 - C.O.A. Included

Brass Construction

Factory Painted

Complete Cab Interior and individual gauges, valves and levers

Detailed boiler, with authentic domes, piping and handrails

2 seven-pole Buhler motors

Twelve powered wheels

Smoke Generator

Simulated Fire-box fire

Automatic directional front and rear lights

Cab Interior Lighting

Digital Electronic Sounds: synchronized steam chuffs, bell, whistle, brake, steam release, conductor announcement, etc.

Removable coal load

Length: 787mm (31 inches)

Weight: 6300grams (13.8 Lbs)

Information Booklet included

Spare Parts, Couplers, Track Magnets, Smoke Oil all included

Original Wooden Box and Packing Included

The initial price at time of first sale was US$ 3,000.00 (estimated), German DM 5,999.00 and US$ 3,300.00(?) for the digital version. But the US market would soon find the loco so attractive that prices would surge up to US$ 4,500.00. The price would stay high throughout the years.

Surprisingly the LGB advertising for this beautiful engine was again dismal. Besides being presented in the main catalog 2001, pg 79 the only other mentioning was in the "INFO 2001" LGBoA edition. Repeating last year's (2000) mindless 'advertising'  LGB lost the 20922 NGG 13 Garratt  on page 2 of 4 brochure pages :

page 2 of 4 INFO 2001 brochure - "Find the Garratt...."

The archetype to this engine was the Garrat NG G13 of the Schinznach Nursery RR (Schinznacher Baumschulbahn) in Switzerland

Garratt NG G13 - Courtesy of the "Verein Schinznacher Baumschul Bahn"

The Schinznach Nursery RR bought the NG G13 No. 60 from the (successor?) South African Railways in the 1980's. Though it had to be repaired/restored the engine was still operational. As of 2017 the "Drakensberg" is on loan to the Vale of Rheidol Railway in Wales/England and will again be in service.

The NG G 13 No 60 in Wales
Courtesy of http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/

Originally built in 1927 by the German company HANOMAG for the South African Railway, the Garratt was always built for 600mm narrow gauge - first to haul fruit and cane (sugar) from fields later replaced by Diesel locos. Her engineering design made it possible to work through very tight curves, up to 3% gradients/slopes all the while carrying very heavy loads. Even though the British had the patent on the (Beyer) Garratt South Africa had no inkling to have the British benefit from loco orders after the Boer wars and hence contracted with HANOMAG which changed the British design to the extent that operation tolerated narrow, tight and steep tracks and very heavy loads. But that came at the expense of the engineer and stoker. The cabins were small and eerily overheated by steam turret, vacuum brake ejector and sight-feed lubricator placed inside the cabin. The men sat on movable pin stools so it became a common sight to see a Garratt with their engineers hanging outside the cabins.....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++to be continued.................................

Aster and LGB - # 20542

The year 2000 brought another Aster/LGB engine. Aster again excelled in manufacturing/ hand-assembling a complete brass locomotive model, this time the Aster Hudson NYC.

LGB Aster 20542 - Courtesy of ebay.com

The engine was first advertised on page 2 of the " LGB INFO 2000" literally drowning in a deluge of new LGB engines and cars..................

LGB INFO 2000, page 2 upper portion

LGB INFO 2000 - page 2 lower portion

Hiding among 43(!) new engines and cars finding the Aster Hudson was more of a puzzle game than real marketing. And it will remain another puzzle why LGB didn't see fit to give the Aster Hudson some real advertising at all. Other than in the 2000-catalog (page 101) there was no mention of this new beauty. The edition volume was again 600 out of which some would sport a digital decoder. Obviously LGB had second thoughts about selling all engines manufactured. Nonetheless LGB installed analog sound in all but those with digital sound (LGB # 20542.8). The Hudson NYC sports the engine number "5405".

(While YT is writing this, your Famous Klaus is testing the just programmed new ESU decoder he installed into an ABA F7  unit : custom sound editing the decoder. My dear man.... YT ears are buzzing with the ROARING SOUND of an F7 of majestic proportions.... was the office relocated to the RR yard and nobody told me..?)

LGB had again decided to have each wooden box individually numbered. The price tag was around US$ 3,600.00 and about US$ 4,000.00 for the digital sound version. Today's value hovers around the same price but be vigilant; if you'd like to buy an Astor/LGB NYC Hudson today check carefully if all parts are intact and present. LGB/Aster or LGB service blow-ups are NOT available for any Aster/LGB loco. LGB never offered them and neither did Aster.

Currently (April 2020) a German company for model trains had 20 LGB/Aster 20542 assembled by a supply craftsman shop that utilized original Aster/LGB Hudson brass/metal parts. These engines are outfitted with a digital sound and a digital pulsed smoker, the price tag is Euro 2,999.00 plus shipping (about US$ 3,300.00)

https://www.modell-land.de/5405-hudson-dampflok-zimo-digital-20542-aster-p-19010.html

The archetype for the # 20542 is of course the 4-6-4 NYC Hudson, built after 1927 as one of the most powerful steam engines ever built before being replaced by Diesel engines. The archetype is a J-3 class engine built by ALCO. Wikipedia gives this information:

non-streamlined J-1 class New York Central  Hudson # 5249

(see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Central_Hudson):"The New York Central Hudsons were a series of 4-6-4 "Hudson" type steam locomotives built by the American Locomotive Company and the Lima Locomotive Works from 1927 to 1938 for the New York Central Railroad. Named after the Hudson River, the 4-6-4 wheel arrangement came to be known as the "Hudson" type in the United States as these locomotives were the first examples built and used in North America. Built for high-speed passenger train work, the Hudson locomotives were famously known for hauling the New York Central's crack passenger trains, such as the 20th Century Limited and the Empire State Express. With the onset of diesel locomotives in the mid 20th Century, all Hudson locomotives were retired and subsequently scrapped, with none preserved." 

Fun fact: later versions like the streamlined Hudson 20th Century Limited gave birth to the phrase "red carpet treatment" since their passengers walked to the train on a specially designed crimson carpet.

Streamlined Hudson 20th Century Limited, promotional photo
Courtesy of Wikipedia

++++++++++++++++++++++to be continued......................................

Aster and LGB - # 20811

A member of the 99 7234 family - Courtesy of HSB.de

For the next cooperation with Aster it took only a year (after the LGB/Aster # 20831) to introduce the Harz Narrow Gauge RR/Germany. The HSB 99-7243-1; LGB # 20811 was presented in 1999.

The archetype HSB 99 72431- a 5-axle 2-10-2 loco- was built between 1954 and 1956 by the East German Railroad (Communism regime) as one of 17 locomotives, all for narrow gauge 1 meter (3 ft 3 3/8 in). By 1993 all 17 locomotives were taken over by the HSB RR, Brockenbahn, by now the unified Germany. All 17 engines are still existing today and the HSB 99 7243-1 is one of the few still operational.

LGB was celebrating their 30th anniversary in 1998 when  planing/ construction for the LGB 20811 started. They wanted something special. First, the model is and was truly a German narrow gauge engine. The Brocken RR is located in the heart of Germany and entertwined by history, fairy tales, folklore and classic literature. The Brocken RR is a true tourist attraction in one of the most beautiful areas in Germany and offers true narrow gauge experience of eras gone by.                                                                                                                                           

The Brocken  RR and a 99734-1 - Courtesy of oberharz.de

Germany was about to celebrate its 10 year anniversary of unification (1989 to 1999) and what better type to choose than the HSB 99 7243 as a loco to honor both celebrations, 30 years LGB and 10 years of unification.
BUT -- LGB had to advertise this new all-metal Aster/LGB loco before they even had a hand model.... They had to come up with something...even though nobody had thought about production volume or advertising....

From the 1999 New Items brochure

So they took to the archetype, photographed it and now had to come up with an edition number. LGB still had some of the previous Aster models left, some of the LGB 20821 as well as of the # 20831. But they also had the new digital system to sell and some Aster/LGB 20811 models were meant to have this new sound/digital system. Hence they printed :"Production 600 pieces."

By the time LGB/Aster was getting ready for production things had ripened a bit. Since the catalog/brochure printing LGB thought of something very special: To have each and every Aster/LGB loco given their own individual number. The edition volume of the LGB 20811 was 800. And each loco would have their own number starting from 101 through 900:

LGB 20811 here shown # 707 - Courtesy of Only Trains

LGB had also just introduced their digital system MTS (Multi Train System) and a little later offered another 300 LGB # 20811 engines with a digital decoder under the number LGB # 20811.8. As before the engines were sold in a wooden box which this time also carried the individual loco number on a brass plate in front of the box

LGB 20811 packaging - Courtesy of Only Trains

The LGB 20811 sold for US$ 3,000.00 to 3,500.00 in 1999 and currently several engines, also digital, are for sale offered between US$ 3,300.00 and 4,300.00.

LGB 20811 No 682 - Courtesy of Only Trains

Then there is another 'anomaly': 4 LGB 20811 were gold plated by LGB. YT has a hunch that they were made for just one dealer in the USA. Today one such engine is left and for sale by Gold Coast Station/CA for US $ 15.000.00

Gold plated  LGB 20811 at Gold Coast Station, currently offered for US$ 15,000.00
(as of  April  2020)

++++++++++++++++++++++ to be continued..........................

Aster and LGB -- # 20821 and # 20831

After the flop of the first Aster/LGB loco, the live steam Frank S, LGB needed to rethink their Aster cooperation.
It was almost an about face. In 1996, 2 years after the production of the Frank S ended LGB 'started over'. The only two things still standing were (1) the loco was still made by Aster and (2) the material was still metal. Everything else was adapted to the LGB customer. The loco was ready to be operated on any LGB layout. No live steam. LGB and Aster had electrified the engine with 2 Buehler motors. The loco was only sold by LGB; Aster never took it into their roster. The model was the Aster Shay LGB # 20821

From the LGB 1996 News front page

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlbJpV5k3wk

The archetype engine was a 3-truck Shay built for the West Side Lumber Company which had 15 (!) narrow gauge Shays built for them. The number 12 was built in 1927 and ended up in the Colorado
Railroad Museum in Golden/CO where she still can be admired. Left: see photo and link

The big photo above shows a handcrafted photo-model and the advertising in the "1996 German New-Item" brochure stated clearly:" shown is a handcrafted photo-shoot model. This loco ONLY to be built if enough orders will be received and edition volume only according to order numbers."

This time they meant it. Order and we will built but only if we get enough orders. The price, though never advertised, had also changed dramatically. It went from US$ 1,300.00 to  US$ 2,990.00 ( DM 6,750.00) which was the equivalent of a monthly salary for a managing director.
LGB was onto something. The LGB hobby was not for the (financially) faint-of-heart. The price combined with this rare product attracted the LGB fan everywhere. 500 were made:

LGB 20821 - Courtesy of BrassTrains.com

The loco came in a beautiful wooden box (inside the regular Styrofoam box) - LGB collector please note! This locomotive didn't come with sound. She  sported 2 Buehler motors. It was announced in Fall of 1996 and the orders poured in. Delivery was in Spring of 1997. Now - that was more like it!

Courtesy of Only Trains

Over the years the LGB Aster Shay kept her value. The latest internet offer (03-25-20) is for US$ 4,745.00 , no wooden box, no styrofoam box, but sound added. (trainli.com).

With the new strategy for the Aster/LGB cooperation working just fine the next endeavor was on its way by 1998. The advertising was sparse for the new Aster/LGB engine - the K 28. Only the German LGB customer saw an early advertising:

LGB New Item Brochure 1998 German version 

You need to look closely to see the small vignette in the middle of the (partial) flyer sporting the banner "limited edition". The only other form of advertising was it being shown in the 1998 main LGB catalog (page 43). There was no advertising at all in the USA. Just word by mouth. It worked. Enough orders came in and the K 28 was made. A full metal version, made and assembled by Aster, converted for LGB to electric operation, with 2 Buehler motors. Sold solely by LGB, not included in the Aster engine roster (no live steam versions were built)
.

LGB 20831 The K 28 # 473  - Courtesy of Only Trains

LGB # 20831  in its original packaging - Courtesy of Only Trains

The LGB# 20831 was also packaged in the typical LGB Styrofoam box and then packed into a beautiful wooden box. Sales price was again DM 6,790.00 or about US$ 3,500.00. The value today is about the same when she comes to market. Some K-28 were retrofitted by their owners with sound and might sell for more these days. However, be careful to make sure the sound installation was done  by a professional and did not harm the value of the loco.

The D & RGW # 473- Courtesy of Wikipedia

The archetype K-28 was a narrow gauge loco 3 feet 0 inch gauge (912mm) and was built in 1923 for the Denver & Rio Grande RR by Schenectady Loco Works/ ALCO.  10 engines were built and ran either for the D&RG RR or the Yukon and White Pass RR. However, the climate in Alaska proved to be too much for this type of engine and operation of the K-28s was ceased by 1946.
Of the K-28 three were preserved at the Durango and Silverton RR, among them the # 473. All are operational today and on display at the D&SNG. The #473 is currently being converted from coal burning to oil burning


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++to be continued..................................

Aster and LGB -- # 2901

Aster had been at the International Toy Fair in Nuremberg for a few years already when Wolfgang Richter approached them looking for a collaboration. LGB had experienced great success with their line of product and was eager to expand their market. Wolfgang Richter had succeeded in the German, Swiss, Italian, French and Austrian market and had left an indelible mark in the American market. In some years the USA accounted for up to 40% of their sales volume.

So it was only natural to look for a product that could accompany the LGB philosophy in their G-scale hobby. And Aster had what it took: a wonderful metal loco built, manufactured in big quantity for a reasonable price while maintaining high quality, G-Scale size (!) or willing to adapt to 1:22.5 scale and a very good name in the market. And what is more authentic than live steam?

The collaboration decided on the Frank S, the archetype a military field loco often operated on narrow gauge lines.

The original Frank S  HC110- Jagsttalbahn - Courtesy of Wikipedia

To quote Aster :" E.P. Lehmann ....approached us with a proposal. Build a live steam engine in “LGB scale” using the simplest operational outline so it could be run by the average model train enthusiast.  Of course, making something simple .... meant...making a smaller and simpler engine required new engineering design and thought. 
After studying their choice of prototype, the “Frank-S,” it was decided the way to implement a simplified operation was to employ a reverser block and piston valves.  This was instead of our conventional D-slide valves and any of the various valve gears...  In this manner, we achieved a locomotive which was simple enough for the beginner but with appeal for the live steam veteran.(quoted from https://www.southernsteamtrains.com/manual/history.htm)

The result is the Aster/LGB # 2901 Frank S

LGB #2901 - Courtesy of Worthpoint.com

It came in a special box and made its market debut at the 1989 International Toy Fair in Nuremberg

LGB 2901 with box - courtesy of worthpoint.com

To emphasize the significance of the event, Klaus Baumann, VP of Marketing at LGB, made the impossible possible. He lived close to the Jagsttal Railway which had just ceased business (1988) and still had their  rolling stock and museum stock in the yard. The Frank D was one of them. He managed to convince the RR managers to transport the loco (over 60 miles) into the exhibition hall onto the LGB 'booth'. He then had an LGB loco operate around the REAL Frank S on a layout circling the archetype.

Thanks to 'You Tube" here is a photo:

You have to look really close in the right lower corner and will see the small black loco (a Mogul) coming out of the green plant with some cars on the right lower side of the green ficus plant. If you like to see the video go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieh6lJdfFkw.
The fair was a smashing success for LGB and no TV station missed the opportunity of this stupendous sight.
The Aster Frank S was real live steam. Aster offered about 50% of their models as kits to be assembled by the buyer/hobbyist. For the LGB Frank S all was ready to go. In live steam. In G scale. With a joint Aster/LGB edition volume of 3028. Fantastic, right?

It was a flop. A disaster. Those who bought it had no idea how to operate it. The regular LGB fan was no live steamer. For the few and far between it was special and great. Not so for your average LGB patron. He wanted a loco ready for the tracks, switch on and off we go...But live steam doesn't work like that. Live steam requires handling of (in this case) gas and water. Live steam necessitates your watchful eye every second. Live steam is work. Period. And for that the LGB fan had to shell out  DM 3,000.00 or about US$ 1,500.00 which represented about a week's salary/wages.

Wolfgang Richter had to learn a lesson. Even though the model did sell here and there, the LGB Frank S ended up mostly in show cases at their owner's homes.
And learn he did. Two things came out of this steaming adventure - pun intended.
LGB added the Frank S as a model to their loco line-up and over the years published four Frank S models in regular LGB LURAN plastic: the # 20261, 21261, 22261 and 23262.
And LGB kept the alliance with Aster going while learning from loosing steam...The LGB Frank S was built (by Aster) until 1994. Then it was on to new horizons for this remarkable joint venture.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++ to be continued.....................